 
RICHIE HAWTIN
Stretching Boundaries--Plastikman Loosens Up
Words by Robert Phoenix
Images courtesy of MFPR
"Plastikman
was created in the dirty cracks, in the dirty warehouses
in Detroit. That’s where he came from."
 Richie Hawtin ( a.k.a. Plastikman)
stretched across the Canadian/US border in the late Eighties and infiltrated a Detroit
Techno scene that was redefining how we listened and moved to music. After being exposed
to the ground breaking sonic mutations of the Motor City sound via Derrick May, Juan
Atkins, Jeff Mills and Kevin Saunderson; Hawtin and John Aquaviva formed Plus 8 Records.
While the dons of Detroit experienced immense popularity overseas and began to spend more
and more time spinning there, Hawtin and Aquaviva stayed home and started turning heads
with the release of "Cybersonic." What started out as a peaceful coexistence
between scenes and sounds suddenly gave way to friction and fractious feelings. Relatively
unphased, Hawtin morphed into Plastikman and began to record for Nove Mute, mixing and
refining his unique batch of acid beats.
The following conversation took place over the
phone on that warm and fuzzy pick up your trash and hug a tree--Earth Day. The following
are Hawtin’s confessions and recollections on time, space, travel and being the
ultimate outsider.
V: Richie....Are you
completely burnt out yet from talking to so many people?
RH: No..it's only like three or four interviews
today. So, it's easy. No problem.
V: So, how is your Earth
Day going?
RH: My Earth Day? Is it Earth Day today?
V: Today is Earth Day.
RH: Well there you go. I didn't even know if
it’s Monday or Tuesday. Actually I think it’s Wednesday.
V: Isn't time kind of
irrelevant now?
RH: I think so, yeah. Whatever day we say it is,
it’s another day somewhere else in the world, or it’s a different hour in the
world. But who cares, really? We're up, we're on the phone, so we'll talk! ( he laughs)
V: So what it feels like
to me is more moment to moment to moment.
RH: Sure, just making sure you're at the right
reference point to everyone else at that particular point.
V: When you're
performing live, what sort of relationship do you have with time. . .if any at all?
RH: Probably the amount of time I have to stay
up on that stage (he is laughing). How much time is left in my set. No, with live shows,
live performances,I feel that the interesting thing is to interact with people at that
split second and give them something special at that point in time and then move on to the
next. Even when I'm DJing or doing an actual live live show, I also don't like to later on
come back to that point and say release a DJ tape or too much of my live show on CD or
anything like that because I think it’s all about giving people specific experiences
and specific memories at that point in time and leaving them there. I don't think you need
to move them forward or back, you just leave them where they are and let the people
remember those moments. Or how they think they remembered them, how they experienced them;
how they perceived them. Time's nature is to move forward. To try to recapture something
and keep putting that out over and over again is in some circumstances is against why you
were doing it in the first place.
V: Well with that in
mind, when you perform live, there's Richie Hawtin and there’s Plastikman. How do you
bridge the two and how do you make decisions to play certain tracks?
RH: Its spontaneous. Its spontaneous combustion.
Well I guess there’s preparation for both. In my live shows I prepare certain sounds
and certain rhythms that can be used during that performance. I also program stuff on the
fly so, I have it going. So there is some kind of set up. For DJing I guess I made the
decision before I close up my box of records when I get on the plane. So I have a set
number things I can possibly play; I always take about eight hours worth of music when I
DJ anyway. I can't do everything that I want to do, but I have enough leeway so that I can
go for it spontaneously. I’ve seen DJs who set their records in order so they know
what mixes well together and do that. But of course if you get a good mix that works
sometimes and you're at a party and its slamming--maybe you drop one or two tracks
together--which you know has worked well in the past. Aside from those couple of points,
everything else is just moving right along. Its spontaneous. Its like: you pull this and
after that record you know what to play next and as you play the next record you know what
to play next.
V: When you have
completed a set, can you look back on that set generally and say." Oh, there was a
theme going on"?
RH: For sue, for sure. When it’s a good
set, it’s when you connect with the people and you nearly get to the point where
you’re not thinking about anything--about the records you're playing, not specific
records. You stop thinking about it. You've been playing for an hour, two hours, or three
hours--you put the record on and instantly without thinking you know where you are going
next. It just builds upon that. You get to a point where you also know that it’s time
to wrap up the loose ends and to tie the set up. It’s not just like you’re
barreling along and then you're done. It’s not just about jumping on and going for
it. It's about getting on and setting something up and taking that to a peak or to a
certain point and then wrapping it up and taking it to a conclusion.
"I think
the important stage to get to is when you’ve got the crowds dancing to rhythms that
eight hours before they never thought they would dance to or never comprehend..."
V: What’s the most
subtle nuance that you have ever experienced from the crowd that has triggered something
inside of you?
RH: I think it’s when you get to the point
where people start screaming and do this physical kind of vocal outburst of energy or
something like that. It’s more interesting when you get the crowd or the audience
locked into something where you really look at everyone in the room and it just becomes
evident that you could be anywhere. It really doesn't make a difference who these people
are, everyone has just been locked into the groove. Then when the crowd is really silent,
then you’re starting to get the subtleties of everybody. When everyone has their eyes
closed and it’s just about the rhythm. I think the important stage to get to is when
you’ve got the crowds dancing to rhythms that eight hours before they never thought
they would dance to or never comprehend--when it’s like this freedom of movement--not
only am I not thinking about what to play next, it comes natural--the crowd isn’t
thinking about what dance is cool, or how they look, or what their friend is thinking;
it’s just about that rhythm. That’s when things start to connect together.
V: That reminds me of a
set that Kevin Saunderson did. It was probably one of the best sets that I’ve ever
seen and everything that he was laying out was more and more unexpected. There was a lot
of mystery and surprise that kept coming out of those speakers.
RH: I think a DJ can only get to that point if
the crowd gets to that point. It’s one of those things that you're nudging forward,
the crowd's nudging forward, the DJ nudges forward, the crowd nudges forward and suddenly
you're totally in synch. It’s not that one person has moved forward two inches from
the other. There is one point where you both fit together in synch. That’s the point
you need to get to.
V: Back to this time
thing. Going back in time, your genesis as a DJ is very interesting and quite unique.
Here, you’re this kid living in Canada you show up in Detroit and you connect with
the whole Plus 8 scene and a lot of the guys who are the dons of techno. I’m
wondering how you felt at that time--coming across the border--which in and of itself is a
very interesting psychological demarcation and hanging out with this completely different
culture and this very radical scene?
RH: I came in my younger teenage years. There
was always. . .to a lot of people this big separation between what’s in Detroit and a
totally different world. Physically there was a river that you had to cross, ID to show
and things like that. As I grew up, I was always fascinated by that. I was always drawn to
that whether it was going to hang out with friends, to go to clubs, to go shopping or
anything. That was just where you had to go to get things done. I think maybe I was--what
is the word for it--idealistic about it. Or maybe it was very innocent to me. It didn't
seem like such a big divide. That's just what I needed to do. It was where things were
happening.
As I got involved in the Techno scene, it was
very early, like 87. People were just getting into this new sound. Everybody's heads were
just getting blown off just from these crazy sounds, like you said, emanating through the
speakers. To me the Carl Craigs, the Derricks, the Kevin’s, they were kind of
instigators of the sound. But it wasn't like any other scene where those people are really
separated from everyone else. It wasn't like these people were on stages and we were in
the audience. It was really a lot closer together. I think that was one of things that
drew me into it because I just liked what these guys were doing. They were doing their own
music. It just seemed to be a natural progression of getting into the music. I strated
DJing and producing. It just happened without thinking about it really.
V: Did you have to prove
yourself or were just accepted?
 RH: I definitely had to prove myself.
Maybe to some people I’m still proving myself to the Detroit scene. It’s a
strange one--hard to explain really. At that time I didn't really think about. I was from
Windsor. I was coming back and forth. Maybe I was stepping on some people's toes. Maybe it
wasn't my city or my thing to do. These were things I never thought about. To me, I was
into this music and it was something I felt very passionately about, something I had to
get into. It wasn't about trying to integrate with everyone or trying to prove anything.
It was just about having my take on things. This is my interpretation or what I have to
say.
V: So did you experience
territorialism?
RH: Detroit has a very strict territorial
incarnation, I think.
V: I was just thinking
that must be very difficult because (a) you're a Canadian coming into America, (b) you're
an outsider coming into a scene, and (C) there's the whole racial demarcation.
RH: Yes, well I think the outsider coming into
the scene wasn't so much of a problem. I never saw that as a problem because there wasn't
so many people into the music then. It was a small kind of--I won't say family, it was a
small scene. I had been into it as it started to take off. There weren't other kids from
Windsor going over. But there were as many suburban white kids as suburban black kids into
the music. I think everyone was happy that they were into this music. So in that way it
wasn't any problem. Even as a DJ there wasn't any problems, being the kind of white guy
DJing in Detroit. I was still the white guy from Windsor playing in Detroit and playing a
helluva lot of Detroit music. There wasn't really any problems there either. It wasn't
really until we first started to release records on Plus 8. The first couple of records
were well received; they weren't like huge anywhere. When we did the third record, it was
called "Cybersonic." Me Daniel Bell and John Aquaviva did this record together.
That was the first Plus 8 record that was really accepted overseas. It really became
somewhat of a techno hit or whatever you would call it in 1990. That was kind of when
people's ears pricked up. Some of the more established Detroit area producers kind of took
a step back and said "hey, what's going on here?!" {he says this in a long
extended growl}
I think it was a mixture of a couple of things.
Yeah, sure its three white kids coming from outside of Detroit doing this music. At this
point in time--1990--things had slowed down a bit in Detroit. Some of the original
producers Derrick, Kevin and Juan were having great success in Europe and were spending a
lot more time over there. So there wasn't as many records coming out or as much support
back home for that. I think if there had been a helluva a lot of other things coming out
of Detroit, it would have been easier to be lumped in with them. But it was like;
"huhhhh ya know not much is going on and it takes some Canadian guys, or some white
Canadian guys, or whatever to come in and start releasing some other records from the area
and get some success in Europe to get their attention. I think it was a tap on the
shoulder or maybe a jab too close to home.
"Detroit
has a very strict territorial incarnation, I think..."
In retrospect with the ability to look back in
time, I think we were a lot more naivé back then. We didn't really see that we were doing
anything wrong. My postion was look I had been DJing in Detroit for a couple of years,
I’d been hanging out in Detroit since my early teenage years. All of us together have
been inspired by Detroit. We wouldn't have been doing this music or DJing in Detroit if we
hadn't been touched by Derrick's music or these other guys music. So for us, it was a
progression of things. Ultimately, we were making our own version of the Detroit sound. So
I think it was very innocent what we were doing. Now that I have the perspective of some
of the history of Detroit and Detroit music--even black music in general--which I didn't
have at that point in time. I can kind of see where some of the problems and attitudes may
have come from. I think that whether people that have come to respect us, be our enemies,
or at least leave us be, these would be the people who realize this now. We weren't out to
rape the city. We weren't out to take anything away from any of the artists. We were doing
something that was our own thing which had been inspired by music that had come from the
Motor City. But was totally our own take on it and that’s what we started and
continue to do.
V: Well unfortunately it
brings up the collective memory of exploitation. But you don't have to be white to exploit
a genre of music or a certain strain of artists. Hopefully you guys needed to do what you
needed to do learn and grow and incorporate those things into your current manifestation.
RH: Oh yeah for sure. Everything that we
experienced, the first music that came out of our experiences in Detroit continues to be
an isnpiration for us. Also how that relates and impacts me living next to Detroit, having
all my friends, my girlfriend living in Detroit and throwing events in Detroit; those
things have helped create me. The interesting thing is, is that I have this ability to go
into Detroit and experience it. But I also have the luxury
(I don't know if it is a luxury) to take a step
out into my studio and record which is outside of Detroit. One of the best photographs you
can take of downtown Detroit is from Windsor because you get the full view of the all the
buildings. It’s like a postcard view. I’m able to take that step back and record
from that perspective. But at the end of the day I also understand the nitty-gritty and
new things that you won't see in that type of picture.
V: That's interesting
because it brings to me the image of your alter-ego; Plastikman. Of being elastic and
being able to stretch from one point to the next and back again. Is that a quality that
you see in yourself and contributes to your moniker? Or was there a completely different
reason why you chose Plastikman?
RH: The name as a moniker. Slightly different
reason (laughs). Plastikman was created in the dirty cracks, in the dirty warehouses in
Detroit. That’s where he came from. That was really built up on my experiences and my
friend's experiences. It came through hanging out in Detroit, clubbing and throwing our
own events in there. That’s really where that came from. It came from a kind of
expanding our own consciousness kind of thing. Plastikman has really got this sense of not
being of this world. That’s just where he came from.
V: What was it like
working with Pete Namlook?
RH: Without sounding corny, it was great. Pete
and I just worked together. We’re great friends. {his voice sounds warm and
nostalgic}. Like when we first made the first "From Within" record we kind of
just got thrown together. We were like; " yeah lets record together!" Pete is
this guy who did an album in a week. Maybe I'll make an album in a week but I don't set my
schedule the way Peter does. He's like this week, these five days we do an album.
Ya’know, very German, very regimented and very efficient. It was a bit daunting but
when we got there, we instantly hit it off and we have been friends ever since. We have
this strict schedule. When we get together, we may have two or three days, five at the
tops to do an album. We just hang out and talk about what we're doing and where we're
going. Then we’ll have a couple of drinks, some some food and then record. Simple as
that really. I think the albums mimic the process.
I think the albums come off very easy. I like
those albums because they are very interesting but they’re also comfortable albums.
V: There is a breeziness
to them.
RH: That's a good word. Breeziness. That’s
just Peter and I working together. This album, the newest one with him, I think its number
three now. I don't know if you know that yet?
V: I’m only
familiar with the first two.
RH: OK there is a third album out. If you hear
it, it was actually recorded in the shortest amount of time: three days. And he just moved
out into the countryside, so we just got together on this one. I’ve really been
getting into a lot of Miles Davis lately. And he’s like (gasp) a big jazz fan. He's
like, "that's cool." We were out in the countryside, out in the middle of
Germany in the wine district making music. We went to a friend of his who is actually a
wine grower and wine maker who had this cool cellart.
V: They call them
Rathskellers, I think.
RH: Yeah. So we went down there, grabbed some
wine, went back up to his house, chilled out, and recorded an album (both laughing).
V: Not too bad.
RH: In some ways even though it’s so
efficient that you have to record in this time it’s relaxing and it’s the
opposite of the rest of my life because I am so fast paced. I’m always travelling
from country to country, to DJing, and running a business, cramming twenty-six hours into
a twenty-four hour day. But even though when Peter and I get together we have to cram in
as much time as possible to record. It’s also really relaxing.
V: So what is the future
of Plus 8? Is that still happening?
RH: Right now its just kind of in--have you ever
heard of a seven year cycle?
V: Yeah.
RH: Well Plus 8 has just finished its seven
years. I think my partner John (Aquaviva) and I, we're just in a frame of mind that we
need to take a step to the left or the right. Let Plus 8 go on to a state of suspended
animation for a while. I think Plus 8 has done just what it was set out to do. It has gone
past all of our expectations. John and I really want to move that forward again and come
up with some new ideas and need to take a dramatic pause at the moment. I think John and I
have always thought that there are too many companies and too many people just going and
going and going. When sometimes it’s really good to have a little time off to take
perspective of what you’ve done, where you are, and where you want to go. That’s
the point we're at right now. We’re kind of reflecting and deciding of really how to
move Plus 8 forward again.
V: I've always wanted to
ask a DJ this question: What does it feel like to pack up your records, get on a plane
with the knowledge that within hours you’ll be playing in front of hundreds or
thousands of people?
RH: To be really boring about it, its my job
(both laughing). But it’s something that I love. Jeff Mills andI had a conversation
about this very topic. Maybe in some ways we’re futurists, experiencing the luxury of
travelling to so many different countries in such a short period of time. Maybe many
people will do it in the future when technology has convinced us to travel faster on
planes or maybe via other ways. Perhaps technology will allow us to understand different
cultures and experience them . We feel that’s what we're doing now and that’s
what makes me feel special. We’re pioneering and developing ways of movement, ways of
travel and ways of communication that will become commonplace later in history.
Richie Hawtin’s
new album Decks, EFX & 909 is available on Nova Mute. |
